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CX-60 PHEV Takumi
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I support the request for a more intelligent Hybrid mode. Essentially "Normal" mode is the same as setting EV mode - I get some miles of electric driving, then the battery is depleted and effectively I run on the IC engine, with some recuperation and some recharge (observed on the energy flow diagram even though I haven't selected recharge). I would like a "long journey" mode, which emphasised EV mode when setting off and driving in urban traffic and prioritised IC mode as soon as the car is cruising at a higher speed. With electricity prices higher than petrol at the moment I want the car to be as silent and refined as possible and I dont want to use all the charge at the beginning of the journey.
I know that VW have terrible problems with software quality, but compare the capabilities of the Tiguan eHybrid:
Simply put your route in the Tiguan eHybrid’s sat nav and it’ll automatically balance your electric and petrol range, using map data and speed limits to put aside enough electricity for zero-emissions town driving and slower speed limits – maximising efficiency and range. More of this in other PHEVs please!
The best I can do is set the recharge level to 50% but it is hardly the sophisticated balanced hybrid mode that I expect.
I hope that a new mode can be introduced with a software update. I think satnav integration like the VW is too much to hope for, but a speed related intelligence would help.
Does anyone know how other PHEVs behave in this regard - BMW, Merc, Toyota, Lexus? Which ones behave like the Mazda and which ones like the VW?
 

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The best I can do is set the recharge level to 50% but it is hardly the sophisticated balanced hybrid mode that I expect.
I hope that a new mode can be introduced with a software update. I think satnav integration like the VW is too much to hope for, but a speed related intelligence would help.
I think this should be plain and simple. The system just needs to take a lenght of the route from GPS (it is just one variable) and calculate how much electric power to add on average per given km in order to deplet the battery on arrival or, if set to empty to preset level. In the cars where everything is controlled by software this should be just few lines of code. Problem is that Mazda has no expirience of PHEV integration and engenners simply do not thing about real life customer need. Hope that will change soon. I hate all machines being too automatic and they have less and less customisation options. I understand that for many users modern cars are too complicated, but at least give a sort of advanced mode for owners who are technically more advanced.
 

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BMW and Mercedes (those are the manufacturers I know of) are doing it just like VW. One of the problems of Mazda in general and now specifically of the CX-60 is the infotainment, which is at least 15 to 20 years behind actual state of the art. So, the only chance with this car will be „playing“ with the recharge-button. Activating it at countryside (with a target value close to the current value) and turning it off in cities.
 

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Homura
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I've been saying this from the start, and been quite vocal about it on this forum.

I am sick and tired of spending 2-3 hours charging, sometimes at mega costs , for the car to ditch all its charge in 20 miles even on a motorway trip and then be back to poor mpg in a petrol engined heavy awd car. This will happen for 6 months a year in South East England, probably nearer 8 months in Northern England (although the jury is out on that till a day above 15degrees and then I will know for sure if it can meet its target of 39miles) as apparently it relies on 15 degrees as the threshold as to when the range will get better - BS if you ask me, but we shall see soon!

While an 'intelligent gps' based system would be welcome, it certainly doesn't need to be that complicated. The car already has a proper Hybrid mode with the Sport mode, so why not create a similar profile, but with the aspects of the Normal mode such as Regen braking, standard shifting and throttle response..and maybe add in Green dials and things like that.

It could go one step up and you could say your trip will be '300 miles' and it will then calculate the best battery deployment for that trip etc to maximise MPG.

Up to now Mazda has made a PHEV that has me seriously considering going back to diesel, which is pretty much the same summary Autocar magazine has come to as well. Well done Mazda.
 

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CX-60 PHEV Takumi
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I've been saying this from the start, and been quite vocal about it on this forum.

I am sick and tired of spending 2-3 hours charging, sometimes at mega costs , for the car to ditch all its charge in 20 miles even on a motorway trip and then be back to poor mpg in a petrol engined heavy awd car. This will happen for 6 months a year in South East England, probably nearer 8 months in Northern England (although the jury is out on that till a day above 15degrees and then I will know for sure if it can meet its target of 39miles) as apparently it relies on 15 degrees as the threshold as to when the range will get better - BS if you ask me, but we shall see soon!

Up to now Mazda has made a PHEV that has me seriously considering going back to diesel, which is pretty much the same summary Autocar magazine has come to as well. Well done Mazda.
I know you have been vocal about this, and agree with your points - I only started this specific thread because your comments had got buried in the middle of a huge thread. I agree with you that there is no point in the current configuration - the Mazda economical diesel would be a better buy for most owners.

I think that Mazda should be as clever as VW, BMW and Mercedes with their navigation integration, but I would accept a new mode which used the EV for low speeds and switched to IC over 25 MPH - hell they could even call it "Normal mode" as the current Normal mode behaves the same as EV mode until the battery is flat. Personally I would call it ECO mode :).

Sorry to pinch your idea.
 

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Homura
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I know you have been vocal about this, and agree with your points - I only started this specific thread because your comments had got buried in the middle of a huge thread. I agree with you that there is no point in the current configuration - the Mazda economical diesel would be a better buy for most owners.

I think that Mazda should be as clever as VW, BMW and Mercedes with their navigation integration, but I would accept a new mode which used the EV for low speeds and switched to IC over 25 MPH - hell they could even call it "Normal mode" as the current Normal mode behaves the same as EV mode until the battery is flat. Personally I would call it ECO mode :).

Sorry to pinch your idea.
No I agree, I was just putting emphasis on the fact there are others out there wanting similar..with vague hope it may one day get back to Mazda through the likes of the magazines and industry 'experts' who do monitor trends and complaints with cars.

The car in its current guise has both the most uneconomical fuel systems combined together but that work basically independently, madness. It needs some software development that's for sure but from someone outside of the Mazda development team. Also like, they could have a UK based team to develop a mode that is more suited to the UK, or even a system where you can set it up yourself to suit your own personal requirements.

After hearing the 6cyc diesel in those videos posted yesterday, and seeing the Japanese reviews showing the advertised MPG is genuine, I wish I had waited. Its going to cost me £7k to switch to one but I have to make the decision very very soon.. I am very tempted as the new Alfa Romeo Stelvio Veloce/Cometizone is still too expensive with the options, circa £59k (but at least you get proper FSD suspension with the Alfa CPZ) and no dealer other than a Mazda one will give me anything remotely worthwhile on PX, some won't even take it.
 

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I'm not sure what you want from the car.
In simple terms any trip is going to consume a fixed amount of energy whether from battery or petrol. Mazda have decreed that initially you run on EV (unless you really floor it) and after that mainly on petrol with some EV in reserve. At low speeds and pulling away it will be mainly EV.
This is exactly what the 2Hybrid (Toyota Yaris) does although petrol kicks in early due to the minute battery.
My energy flow display shows this. It also shows some recharge from petrol to battery without the recharge button being pressed, but this occurs only when the car is "coasting" at very little throttle and lasts only a second or so.
 

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No I agree, I was just putting emphasis on the fact there are others out there wanting similar..with vague hope it may one day get back to Mazda through the likes of the magazines and industry 'experts' who do monitor trends and complaints with cars.

The car in its current guise has both the most uneconomical fuel systems combined together but that work basically independently, madness. It needs some software development that's for sure but from someone outside of the Mazda development team. Also like, they could have a UK based team to develop a mode that is more suited to the UK, or even a system where you can set it up yourself to suit your own personal requirements.

After hearing the 6cyc diesel in those videos posted yesterday, and seeing the Japanese reviews showing the advertised MPG is genuine, I wish I had waited. Its going to cost me £7k to switch to one but I have to make the decision very very soon.. I am very tempted as the new Alfa Romeo Stelvio Veloce/Cometizone is still too expensive with the options, circa £59k (but at least you get proper FSD suspension with the Alfa CPZ) and no dealer other than a Mazda one will give me anything remotely worthwhile on PX, some won't even take it.
I have cx 60 and I am very happy with it. A Phev does what it should, not a hybrid. You charge it at night and consume ev during the day. Install solar energy, it's free. When it reaches 15-20%, now in the cold it switches to hybrid.. But it has no way of having the yield of a hybrid. You wanted a hybrid to save you gas from kinetics. Phev can't do that. At least no builder has succeeded in this. You also paid extra money for the engine battery, etc., technology that weighs about 300 kg more. A hybrid in essence is directed towards economy, a Phev is towards sportiness, and comfort (the heat pump, which the hybrid does not have) is the sum of the electric powers and the petrol.
 

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Homura
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I have cx 60 and I am very happy with it. A Phev does what it should, not a hybrid. You charge it at night and consume ev during the day. Install solar energy, it's free. When it reaches 15-20%, now in the cold it switches to hybrid.. But it has no way of having the yield of a hybrid. You wanted a hybrid to save you gas from kinetics. Phev can't do that. At least no builder has succeeded in this. You also paid extra money for the engine battery, etc., technology that weighs about 300 kg more. A hybrid in essence is directed towards economy, a Phev is towards sportiness, and comfort (the heat pump, which the hybrid does not have) is the sum of the electric powers and the petrol.
Sport mode does what I want it to, so it does exactly what I want but this is geared to performance rather than economy, the mapping is different. I just want the option to have a normal mode that functions the same as normal mode, (rege braking, standard rev holding, standard engine and gearbox map etc) but utilising its energy depletion in a balanced way like it does in sport mode.

I don't know why I have to keep repeating this, its certainly getting boring :) . Its quite simple, and others do seem to agree.

20 miles range for a 2.5hour charge in six months of the year with £7+ cost is quite simply, stupid and pointless.

Solar power in London? Not even remotely an option. I am not a millionairre so do not own my own house in Central London.

VAG have intelligent PHEV's. Its not a concept that is as bizarre as you make it sound!

Anyhow, the Diesel makes the more economical purchase, so if I can beat the dealer down a little this week, I'll be swapping this thing and have peace in my motoring.
 

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I have cx 60 and I am very happy with it. A Phev does what it should, not a hybrid. You charge it at night and consume ev during the day. Install solar energy, it's free. When it reaches 15-20%, now in the cold it switches to hybrid.. But it has no way of having the yield of a hybrid. You wanted a hybrid to save you gas from kinetics. Phev can't do that. At least no builder has succeeded in this. You also paid extra money for the engine battery, etc., technology that weighs about 300 kg more. A hybrid in essence is directed towards economy, a Phev is towards sportiness, and comfort (the heat pump, which the hybrid does not have) is the sum of the electric powers and the petrol.
Southestern is right here. Being PHEV it openst a multitude of scenarios for combination of utilisation of two drivetrains. One scenario which is very important is not covered with present drive modes - highway. For me is pointless using EV 15 km to the highway and then just burn petrol. I would rather both drivetrains form begining so ICE warms up till the highway. Then, if I go somwhere 100 km away to use EV power in right amount that when arriving there is just few percent left. It could be set on longer kilometers, 150, 300 km, depends what suits the driver best for that trip (or read from GPS). Of course, if you need EV on destination, you can set amount of battery you need there. It is also usable if you want to charge inderway. Here, where I live, is charging on AC on highway still much cheaper than petrol. While you go have a snack, there is half of battery recharged.
 

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Sport mode does what I want it to, so it does exactly what I want but this is geared to performance rather than economy, the mapping is different. I just want the option to have a normal mode that functions the same as normal mode, (rege braking, standard rev holding, standard engine and gearbox map etc) but utilising its energy depletion in a balanced way like it does in sport mode.

I don't know why I have to keep repeating this, its certainly getting boring :) . Its quite simple, and others do seem to agree.

20 miles range for a 2.5hour charge in six months of the year with £7+ cost is quite simply, stupid and pointless.

Solar power in London? Not even remotely an option. I am not a millionairre so do not own my own house in Central London.

VAG have intelligent PHEV's. Its not a concept that is as bizarre as you make it sound!

Anyhow, the Diesel makes the more economical purchase, so if I can beat the dealer down a little this week, I'll be swapping this thing and have peace in my motoring.
As I told you, last week they changed my suspension and made the latest updates to the gearbox, energy management, steering and I can't remember what they told me. But I didn't get to see the behavior at low temperatures because it was hot, over 14 degrees C. To my pleasant surprise and I hope yours too, I had 40% battery and the car worked in hybrid mode as you want. I say that you do not have updated hardware mapping update. And the engine was no longer revved like before when it was trying to charge with priority, because I went with that diagram that shows the energy flow.
 

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As I told you, last week they changed my suspension and made the latest updates to the gearbox, energy management, steering and I can't remember what they told me. But I didn't get to see the behavior at low temperatures because it was hot, over 14 degrees C. To my pleasant surprise and I hope yours too, I had 40% battery and the car worked in hybrid mode as you want. I say that you do not have updated hardware mapping update. And the engine was no longer revved like before when it was trying to charge with priority, because I went with that diagram that shows the energy flow.
I forgot to mention that this morning it was 1 degree C
 

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Homura
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As I told you, last week they changed my suspension and made the latest updates to the gearbox, energy management, steering and I can't remember what they told me. But I didn't get to see the behavior at low temperatures because it was hot, over 14 degrees C. To my pleasant surprise and I hope yours too, I had 40% battery and the car worked in hybrid mode as you want. I say that you do not have updated hardware mapping update. And the engine was no longer revved like before when it was trying to charge with priority, because I went with that diagram that shows the energy flow.
According to Mazda UK last week after my car was in for suspension and any updates, and I have it in writing on the tech report who included conversations with Mazda Technical, there are no gearbox or energy management updates. Mazda are full of BS thats for sure!

The car has always worked in Hybrid mode at 30% for me, thats why I know its possible to be able to do this at a higher battery charge.
 

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According to Mazda UK last week after my car was in for suspension and any updates, and I have it in writing on the tech report who included conversations with Mazda Technical, there are no gearbox or energy management updates. Mazda are full of BS thats for sure!

The car has always worked in Hybrid mode at 30% for me, thats why I know its possible to be able to do this at a higher battery charge.
Paia tunci keeps it at 40% and does not go down, from my experience this morning. Aggressive charging doesn't do either, I noticed. In the winter, you have nothing to do, it protects its battery. It has an 8-year warranty. There is no risk of changing anything in this aspect, in my opinion
 
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